Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Demystifying the Land Issue at L& T South City, Bangalore


My name is Neel and currently I live in Florida,US. Before this I have lived in Bangalore. First time I moved to Bangalore in Jun 2000 to join a prestigious company in Bangalore. Those days I used to live with my wife in a small rented house in a dingy corner of Viveknagar to save on rent to buy my own home. We were searching something good in different areas like Kormangla,Viveknagar, HSR Layout, BTM and even Hosur Road with a limited budget. It was a long and tiring search and the asking price of the property which we liked were always higher than the budget which we had. We revised our budget several times from 7L to 9L to 11L and so on but still having a home in Bangalore seemed to be out of reach.

Spent around two years on this, saw dozen of houses, apartments, plots. When Brigade Millennium inaugurated their project in late 2002, we reached to their site. Though the project looked impressive, it was out of our budget and riding the small moped on the narrow curvy road along the Sarakki Lake was scary. They told about 24th main thing.. but any way budget was the major constraint and we started heading back home. On the way back, I saw two sky scrappers.. two majestic buildings standing side by side.I was amazed. Which project is this one... never heard of this project. I decided I need to have a home in those high rise buildings. I was driving my moped on the sarakki layout, tried my best but could not find any way to reach closer to those buildings to find out who are the builders.

It took few days to come to know what I saw was Phase I of prestigious L&T South City project (L&T never bothered much for advertising and knowing about the project was a discovery) and it did not took longer for me to approach marketing guys. I visited the place and I was impressed. The tall buildings of B1 and B5 standing apart keeping a personal "distance" was looking so majestic. Building of C3 standing all alone was looking gorgeous too. B4 structure was ready with few apartments available for sell. B2 and B3 excavation were going on. Those were the days when you do not buy the apartment unless you see it. I did a detail study of the plan and found that as in the long run we will have many buildings in south city and the best thing for me to go for was an apartment along the periphery of the community and as I preferred height, so obvious choice was to go for "top but one" floor. Initially marketing engineer told me, they do not have any thing like what I wanted but next day he called me up that he can give me something of my choice, but being a premier flat no discounts will be available and I have to pay the full price of 1275 rs/sq ft (in dec '02). Though it looks cheap but during those days it was a big sum and I could afford only in the range of 800-900 rs/sqft. Anyway, I was so impressed that I wanted to get my dream home at whatever cost and I booked it immediately thought it was costing much more than what I could afford at that time.

After booking the flat, we went abroad, and it helped me in funding the payments and two years later in late 2004 we came back to Bangalore to occupy our beautiful apartment with our little daughter. Few months were busy getting the house furnished and started settling down. We were liking the home, the views from the balcony, the nice breeze and the peaceful surrounding.

And then, I heard people talking that the main road which is inside South City is going to become public once the project will be over. We were shocked. It was difficult to digest initially, how you can have a public road in the middle of a community, how it is possible? And then the second setback, I was told that the park is going to be a public park. I could not belive it. I tried talking about this with the people I know and I saw some people who were knowing something about this issue but were either hesitant or not enthusiast to talk about this. Talked with many people and finally I got hold of the BDA approved "development plan" for the housing project. I did a detailed analysis of the information which I had and what I "heard" from the people and came out of a document "L & T South City - Demystifying the Land Issue" in April '06. I circulated this document through the yahoo group and even in printed form so that more residents and owners can be made aware of the issue which we have.
At multiple occasion, I tried to sensitize the flat owners at south city with this issue and though many found this document as an eye opener, without any strong association focussed to work on this issue, nothing much happened to resolve or to clarify the doubts which most of us have.
With this document, mine other agenda was to reach the prospective buyers so that they can make an "informed" decision rather than getting duped by the builder.

Though my demanding job never gave me enough time to work on this issue actively and consistently, today after leaving South City, I see enough time to work on this cause from thousands of miles away. I have converted the document in form of blog which is much easy to share. Please go through it and if you have a prospective buyer, please let him be aware of the same. Also, google will always help reaching the prospective buyers to this page. I am looking for the time, when some body searches for L&T in google, the visitors are directed to this blog rather than their corporate site.
This document talks about the facts as it was in Apr'06 and I have not updated the contents, so some of the figures will be old, but most of the facts mentioned in this cocument are still correct.
Please feel free to add what you feel about the land issue and what is your view towards it at the end of this blog as the comments preferably with your name. Anonymous comments are okay as well as they are palatable. Also, if you have lots to share, let me know and I can make you co-blogger.

If you feel like to reach me, you can always e-mail me.

Regards, Neel August 30th, 2007

What follows here is the document made by me in April 2006:

Search Keywords - L&T South City bangalore southcity L&T Larson and Toubro Limited ECC Engineering Construction and Contracts Division ltproperties

1. Background

I am sure for most of you, having an apartment in a campus of 34 acres of land with 85% of open space was one of the most important factors in taking a decision for making your home at South City. Before buying the apartment when you made your first visit to South City, the wide main road which greeted you must have pleased you. The beautiful park on the other side of the road made you to think its okay to buy an apartment here even though the number of buildings on the other side looks huge. And you bought an apartment and settled down here.
And now you hear the truth which shocks you. You hear that park is not yours. You hear that the road is going to be made public. You are bewildered and surprised. L&T was supposed to be most trusted builders. Can we believe that we are cheated and taken on a ride?
Its hard to believe but it’s a truth that we have been cheated on a very large scale and me, together with you wants to fight this battle. This document gives you the dimensions of the land issue and technical details of the project on which we need to work together. Kindly go through it and circulate with your friends and develop a strong opinion on this issue.

2.Dimensions of the Land Issue at South City

2.1 What is the Total Area of the Land??

How much total land we were promised? 34 Acre or 35 Acre 6 Guntas? Sale Deed Page 3 Para 1 to 4 say that
"OWNER (land owner) and DEVELOPER(L&T has agreed to develop a total area of 34 Acre which is equivalent to 1 37 596.45 sq meter as “South City” in phased manner comprising of 19 blocks including of LIG and MIG with a total built up area of 2 61 912.30 sq meters.”
The agreement to sell, deed of indemnity and all the advertisement materials promised us 34 acre of land and all looks fine. However, recently I got a detailed plan for the South City project which shows 35 Acre 6 Guntas as the total land

Sale Deed
Agreement to Sell
Deed of Indemnity
Advertisement Flyer
34 Acre 137593.12 Sq Mts

The Plan

35 Acre 6 Guntas

142245.72 sq mts

1 Acre = 4046.856 Sq Mts

2.2 We loose 25% straight to the BDA!!

The plan for L&T South City is approved as group housing project. Under this scheme, 25% of the land goes to BDA and they are going to be for benefits of the public. I got a chance to see the plan of the South City and per that following is the distribution of the land. Here you will see 15% of the total land goes as a Public park and then 10% of the land goes out at Community Area, so 25% of the land which we thought is ours have been carved out.

Land Portions Sq Mts Acre % of Total Land --
Total Land Area (=35 Acre 6 Guntas) 1 42 245.72 35.15 --
Plot Area for Group Housing 1 06 683.72 26.36 75 -75%
Park (& 60 feet Road ??) 21 338.10 5.27 15.00 -25%
Community Area I (Power Station) 5 060.00 1.25 3.56 10%
Community Area II (Near Gate 2) 9 165.39 2.26 6.44 .

Now there are multiple questions
(1) Relinquishment of 25% of the land was done in 1996 by land owner and not the L&T. The relinquishment means the land owner forgo certain rights on this piece of land in favor of BDA, but the exact details of what are the rights we loose under this relinquishment could not be answered even by experts. The question here is whether the Relinquishment means the 25% of the land need to be made open to the public at large or they can continue to be of exclusive use of the residents of the campus? If it means that this 25% of the land need to be made open to public at large, this in turn means residents together get only 26 acre and NOT 34 acre.

(2) Experts says that South City is a group housing project, but they does not look to have the details of what a “group housing project” means? The precise question is as group housing project, what are the rights we are supposed to loose? Does Group Housing Project means 25% of the land needs to made open to public?

(3) Even if we have to give 25% of the land to BDA, why shall we give 25% of 35 Acre and 6 Guntas. We were supposed to give 25% of 34 Acre only which is mentioned in all the documents. Along with this 25% of the land need to be carved out from what is allocated for the villa.

2.3.Park is not ours, its a public park!!!

When we talk about park, it is not only the beautiful park,where we enjoy the stroll, it is the whole triangular area starting from the marketing office till the waste disposal facility. In fact, every thing which you see on the right side of the road is supposed to be developed by L&T as a public park for the use of L&T Residents as well as from the neighborhood area. BDA has given this area to develop and use while the project is in progress. And, let us understand the beautiful arrangement here between BDA and L&T. Its a BDA land with no signboard of BDA and L&T silently keeps it within the South City campus and shows to all the buyers as a part of the South City. The buyers get impressed and makes a favorable decision. And, then this park is maintained by the money which we pay for maintenance and L&T uses it for their marketing benefits.

Most of us are too busy to use the park and we do not see much benefits in fighting for it. We think we are okay even if we loose this park. This calculation will help you understand the value of the park and probably help you making up your mind that the park is worth fighting for:

Park Area (in Acres) 5.27
Area in Sq Fts 229681.40
Rate (approximate Rs/sqft) 2000.00
Land value of the Park Area ( In Crore) 45.94

This park worth 45 Crore is worth fighting for. Even if these park has to go for public, L&T has sold the same park to us too. How shall we go ahead on this? Is it the case of L&T selling BDA parks to us?

2.4 60 Feet Road will not be just for walking, but for heavy traffic!!

60 Feet road is much wider than any other internal road of the South City, but this is not for enjoying a walk or taking your baby in the stroller around. This is an extension of 24th Main which will be a public road and will help the general public from Bannerghatta Road to reach the Jayanagar and vice versa. When the project is completed, it will become a public road where you will see a heavy traffic and it will not be any pleasant to walk on this road.

Recently I drove through the Brigade Millennium. They also had a similar thing where there is an artillery road which cut across the campus and used by the public. Though they have security and gate, any body can drive through those roads. They have barricaded the apartment area by boundaries. Are we also going to have the same thing? A road which will be thrown open to public once L&T is done with the marketing benefits of keeping the road private?

2.5 Community Area I is a KPTL sub-station !!

If you see a construction going on at the extreme end after the owner’s villa, it is not a facility for South City. It is sub-station being made for KPTL on the 1.25 acre of land given to BDA. This piece of land comes under 25% and it is not ours. However, not much of concern as it is power station and will not bring much of nuisance. Only issue is that this piece of land was also sold to us by L&T.

2.6 Community Area II is Disputed !!

There is around 2.26 acre of land near the Gate 2, which was shown in all the map as the Community Area. This too has been given to BDA (under the same 25% quota). We learned recently that BDA has sold the same to the land owner at a rate much lesser than the market rate. This is under dispute. BDA has to auction this land and sell at the most competitive rate to some one who will develop this as the community area. Also, some of us understand that the preference shall be given to the owner’s association in
allotting such land. If this happens, we can put our money to make the community area based on our needs and also we can fund the cost by leasing out the commercial places. A lot can be done here if we unite.

Again, who ever makes the Community Area II, we need to sit together and plan what are the things which we need in the Community Area. I was expecting shopping center will be in this area, but to my surprise, I see Level 0 in D3 marked for neighborhood shopping.

This create a confusion what is the intention of L&T to use as the community area. The community area shall have facilities which is useful for the residents of south city and not those things which will bring crowd and traffic from other area to this community area. Some of the things based on this:

What shall we have in the Community Area? What we shall NOT have in the community area?
Facility and Establishments which will be use by majority of the community on day to day basis like
Bank, ATM, Post Office, Creche, Play School, Primary School, Nursing Home, Shopping Area, Groceries, Supermarket, Restaurant, Coffee Shop
Establishments which are not focused on day to day need of the community and which will bring more traffic towards our south city, for example
RTO, Police Station, High School, College, Hospitals

2.7. Land Owner’s Villa on our land !!

This is disputed again. There were supposed to be four villas for group housing project, that means you and I, any body could have bought it, but now it has been converted as a huge single villa with boundary. This brings many issue like how to make sure that no commercial activities takes place in the villa, the maintenance charge is appropriately recovered etc. Also, looks like the villa boundary has taken more space than what it was supposed to take. I do not have very clear information on this. We need to have survey to find out if we lost any land to the villa.

2.8 Gate I is a temporary Structure !!

Gate I is temporary and will be there only till the construction goes on. Gate II will be the main gate for the south city which currently L&T uses for the construction purpose. We may have additional gates on the 60 feet road near the badminton court and then probably near the KPTCL sub station.

If Gate 1 is temporary, was it used only for the marketing purpose? Exit out of Gate 2 will not be that easy. It is too congested and there will be traffic blockage even if some body stops temporarily. Also, think if auto guys start piling up near gate 2. yeah, we are in India, we can live with all these but why this reality was kept hidden and we were shown extra wide and extra open Gate 1 while we were buying the property?

2.9 We will loose the boundary walls!!

Before the park and 60 feet road is made public, we need to have an 8 feet tall boundary wall stretching from the current main gate to the point near the power sub station area. If L&T does not make it before it leaves, we will have to spend huge money in to make it, else all our apartment will get a public access and you will be seeing dozen of hawkers in and around your buildings.

This issue will at least impact all the residents whether you use park or not? And we can not afford to ignore this issue. If L&T's intention is to make the park public, we have to force them to make the boundaries now.

2.10. Will we have LIG/MIG Flats?

Not sure about the fact, but I hear that the builders of group housing project has to make certain number of flats for LIG/MIG and the plan indicates following breakup:

Total No of Flats planned at South City 2624Percentage
No of LIG/MIG Flats in D1/D2/D3 664

No of Regular Flats 1960 74.7

This figure indicates that there is some provision to provide at least 25% of the flats as LIG/MIG flats and in the original plan, L&T indicated that it will make 25% of the flats at LIG/MIG flats.

Here you may want to note that these flats are supposed to be of smaller size and L&T are supposed to give them to BDA at some subsidized rate to BDA (some thing like 600 rs) and in turn, BDA will allot them to the appropriate segments of society.

However, I heard that as having LIG/MIG flats in such community will in general bring down the value of the property, L&T will not be making such flats instead all the flats will be regular.

2.11.Is L&T minting money at our cost?

I hear people telling that L&T has given up the 25% of land on condition that it will not be making LIG/MIG flats instead it will give 25% of land for public use. That looks okay, but only if the L&T drops the plan to make the LIG/MIG flat all together and reduces the number of flats to 1960. If not, and L&T makes 2624 flats, our loss is two fold. 25% of the land we lost to BDA and the number of apartment goes up to 33% from 1960 to 2624. If this is correct, then it means we have been cheated TWICE and not once.

3 Technical Details of the South City Project

3.1 Total Built Up Area

It might be some times difficult to visualize how big our South City, but I got the plan for the campus which gives me full details and I am representing here for reference of all of you. Going through it will give an idea how huge our South City project will be, once it is completed.

BlocksNo of Blocks Level No of UnitsArea per levelArea per BlockTotal FAR AreaGround CoverageTotal FAR Area(without A and D)
-b- u A B F=b*B G=b*A (for level 0) F=b*B
B1 1 Level 0 4 642.86 12694.94 12694.94 642.86 12694.94
-- Level 1-19 76 634.32----
B2,B3,B4 3 Level 0 474 473.51 12217.41 36652.23 1420.53 36652.23
-- Level 1-19- 618.10----
B5 1 Level 0 8 632.24 12455.94 12455.94 632.24 12455.94
-- Level 1-19 152 622.30----
B6,B8,B10 3 Level 0 450 312.42 13202.33 39606.99 937.26 39606.99
-- Level 1- 367.13----
-- Level 2-20- 695.71----
B7 B9 2 Level 0 160495.257987.5215975.04990.5015975.04
-- Level 1 to 19 - 394.33----
C1,C2 2 Level 0 296 293.32 15890.38 31780.76 586.64 31780.76
-- Level 1-17- 826.67----
-- Level 18- 820.84----
-- Level 19- 722.83----
C3 1 Level 01521096.8621107.4821107.481096.8621107.48
-- Level 1 to 17- 1067.70----
-- Level 18- 1018.02----
-- Level 19- 841.70----
D1,D2 2 Level 0 320 1118.41 21703.39 43406.78 2236.82
-- Level 1 to 19- 320 1083.42---
D3 1 Level 0 559.21 13036.03 13036.03 559.21
-- Level 0 8 559.21----
-- Level 1 16 1083.42----
-- Level 2 to 11 40 1083.42----
A1,A2,A3 3 Level 0144515.439774.7229324.161546.29-
-- Level 1 to 17- 493.69----
-- Level 18-- 480.37----
-- Level 19- 386.19----
E- Level 0 4 141.32 253.54 1014.16 141.32 1014.16
-- Level 1- 112.22----
Club House- Level -1- 1495.43 4857.78 4857.78 1234.704857.78
-- Level 0 - 1234.70----
-- level 1- 1153.61----
-- Level 2 - 974.04----
Total 19- 2624- - 261912.29 12025.225 176145.32

The above details shows 474 flats for B2,B3 and B4. But we have only 350 flats. This means the plan is not followed exactly.

3.2 Schedules of the Property

Legal documents describes the property in three schedules:

Schedule A All that piece of converted lands comprised of Survey nos
Sy. No's 90/1,91,92(part),93(part),94 and 95 & 96/1 measuring 34 Acres
Schedule B Apartment No with the mentioned saleable area.
Schedule C Undivided Share of Land mentioned in Schedule A in proportion of the saleable area mentioned in Schedule B

3.3.Undivided Share of the Land

3.3.1.What is Undivided share of land?

First let us understand what is the Undivided share of the land. In a multi apartment’s complex, it is not possible to convey land individually as a divisible piece of land; instead it is conveyed as undivided share. By this the buyer acquires interest in a standard proportion either called fraction or percent, which bears to the total built-up area. This proportion is arrived by dividing the built up of area of the flat which you have bought by the total built up area of all the flats as per the approved plan.

Suppose one complex has 10 apartments each with built up area of 1000 sq ft, then percentage undivided share for each flat owner is 100*(1000/10*1000) , i.e, 10%. This percentage value need to be conveyed as the faction of the total land. Suppose the apartment complex is built on total land area of 4000 Sq ft, then each individual have a share of 10%, i.e, 400 sq ft of the undivided share of land.

3.3.2.How much is the undivided share of land which I shall get?

As mentioned above, the undivided share is a share of total land in a proportion same as the ratio of the saleable area which I have bought to the total saleable area. Either we can represent is in form of percentage of the total land or in for of absolute figure. Here is the way, I have calculated for mine.

How to calculate the Undivided Share of Land ?--
Saleable Area of the Flat = SA (=1105 sq ft) 102.65 Sq Mts
Total saleable area of the project = TSA = (as per the plan) 261912.30 Sq Mts
Percentage Value of Undivided Share of Land--
=100*SA/TSA 0.039193 %
Absolute Value of Undivided Share of Land--
If the whole 34 Acre land were ours --
Total Land Area committed by L&T (=34 Acre) 137593.12 Sq Mts
Absolute Value of Undivided Share = USL1= 53.93 Sq Mts
When we consider only the land which is actually ours --
Total Land Area for Group Housing (=34 Acre -25%) 106683.72 Sq Mts
Absolute Value of Undivided Share = USL2 = 41.81 Sq Mts

This means if the saleable area of a flat is 1105 sq ft (102.65 sq meter) then the undivided share shall be 0.039193 percent of the total land. The above calculation uses a figure of 261912.20 sq mts for the total salable area as indicated in the plan. This figure includes the club house area plus the villa area, which ideally need to
be removed and if we adjust for this, the undivided share will go further up (though marginally).

3.3.3. How much is the undivided share of land we got?

For an apartment in B4 with saleable area of 102.65 sq meters ( 1105 sq ft. ) different documents gives different figure for undivided share. Here is the details.

How did L&T calculate the undivided share of Land?
Saleable Area of the Flat = SAF = 1105 Sq Ft 102.65 Sq Mts
Undivided Share of Land per the Deed of Indemnity & Agreement to Sell = USL 33.36 Sq Mts
Undivided Share of Land per the Agreement to Sell = pUSL1 0.024200 %
Undivided Share of Land per the Sale Deed = pUSL2 0.042000 %
Reverse Engineering: Trying to Find L&T way of calculation
I . Assuming the absolute figure in Deed of Indemnity and the percentage figure in Agreement to Sell is correct
Total Land Area = TLA = 100*USL/pUSL1 137851.24 Sq Mts
Total Saleable Area = TSA = 100*SAF/pUSL1 424173.55 Sq Mts
II. Assuming the absolute figure in Deed of Indemnity and the percentage figure in Sale Deed is correct
Total Land Area = TLA = 100*USL/pUSL2 79428.57 Sq Mts
Total Saleable Area = TSA = 100*SAF/pUSL2 244404.76 Sq Mts

3.3.4.How did L&T calculated the undivided share of land?

Its difficult to understand. Not able to make any sense of the figure mentioned the documents they have given. I need more data to understand how L&T did calculations for undivided share of land, if you can send me following details, it will help me in this research:
Apartment Number_______________________
Saleable Area of the Apartment_______________________
Undivided Share Mentioned in Deed of Indemnity Document _______________________
Undivided Share Mentioned in Agreement to Sell _______________________
Undivided Share Mentioned in Sale Deed _______________________

Please e-mail me this information.

3.4.FAR- Floor Area Ratio

Also known as Floor Space Ratio (FSI). It is the ratio of sanction able area to the Plot area. It is the maximum permissible after some allowances. Depending upon the size of the plot, width of the road abutting the property, and zone classification done by the municipal authorities varies from 1 to 2. If the plot area is say 10000 sqft the FAR may be 10000, 12500, 15000 or 20000.

Calculation for FAR (Floor Area Ratio) South City?
Total Saleable Area = TSA (This figure is taken from the plan and as shown in section 2.) 261912.30 Sq Mts
Total Land Area for Group Housing = TLGH (This is 75% of 35 Acre 6 Guntas.) 106683.72 Sq Mts
FAR for South City = TSA/TLGH 2.46
Allowed FAR (as mentioned in the plan) 2.50

No issue here and surprisingly L&T has achieved FAR of 2.50. But,for that matter FAR of 2.50 is on higher side. However, if they have approval for this, no issue on our side.

3.5.Open Space Calculation

Open area is one important factor which builders advertise. The plan shows the calculation of this open area but while doing this includes both public area as well as the land owner’s portion and shows that percentage coverage is only 11.59%. By, correcting the calculation, I get percentage ground coverage of 15.46% that means 85% of open space.

Open Space Calculation
Total Ground Coverage = TGC (This figure is taken from the plan, but the calculation shows the ground coverage is only to 12397. Any way this is better!!) 16488.16 Sq Mts
Total Land Area including Public Land and Owner's Portion = TLPL (=35 Acre 6 Guntas) 142245.72 Sq Mts
% Ground Coverage = TGC/TLPL (Wrong way of calculation, this is the way plan shows the figure. But, while calculating we can not add the land which is not ours.) 11.59 %
Total Land Area for Group Housing = TLGH (This is 75% of 35 Acre 6 Guntas.) 106683.72 Sq Mts
% Ground Coverage = TGC/TLGH (Right way of calculation) 15.46 %

Its hard to believe but calculation shows that even after construction of all the 19 planned buildings and loosing 25% land to BDA, we will have 85% of land. I will be looking into the correctness of the figure for ground coverage some time later.

One more issue is regarding those open space which are sold as open car park. they are no more common area but private piece of land, can we include them in the open space?

4.More Interesting Facts

4.1. How the plan of South City changes with time?

When we bought apartment in Phase II in B4, the prospectus shows us the whole of 34 Acre land as ours. Even the website of L&T shows currently 34 Acre of land to lure new customer. (as of Aug 07) Visit it at Official website of L&T
You will have to navigate this way - Ongoing Projects - > South City (Bangalore) - > Site Plan and Floor Plan When you go in details to see the plan, you will see that it beautifully shows that park, community area and everything is part of South City and you may read it at the section Project Details which clearly says that in 34 acres, major portion will be left open for greenery and roads.

The actual text from the official website of L&T is reproduced here:

South City situated near Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore is set amidst 34 acres of verdant splendor, with vast areas open to nature.

Its a township comprising of 2300 apartments being developed in phases. Phase I & II comprising of 560 apartments are completed & handed over. Phase III consisting of 190 apartments is being handed over. Phase IV & V comprising of 720 apartments is under construction.

South City, South India's tallest residential building has two level car parking with ground and 19 upper floors, has a minimum of two, three and four bedroom apartments.

About 500 families have moved in and are experiencing the peace, comfort and feel of nature. The classic club house and exotic pool gives a sense of pleasure to the users.

Salient Features of South City Project

  • Constructed using Special MiVAN Technology -- advantage of 5% increase in carpet area to plinth area.

  • In 34 acres, major portion will be left open for greenery and roads.

  • All towers are of Ground + 19 floors with two level covered car parking.

  • Tallest residential building in South India.

  • Winners of three awards.

Then, I saw the prospectus made for Phase V (B6,B7,B8). I see that the plan is changed. The layout does not indicate the existing Gate 1. The Gate 2 is shown as the main gate. I see additional entry points – one near the tennis court, one near the KPTL sub-station and one at the extreme corer of D series apartments. This indicates that L&T too has in their mind that 60 feet road is going to be a public road.

I saw a letter from L&T sent to B2 residents which says that I understand that these many acres of land has been gone to BDA and our land is this much only.

4.2 How the population will grow at South City?

As of now only 33% of the planned flats have been given occupation, remaining 26% will be ready soon. You might be seeing kids play area and other common areas getting crowded now itself. Imagine when 59% of the apartments will be occupied just in few months and then when remaining 41% apartment will be constructed.

Following table calculates the Notional Density when we reaches different phases in the construction. Though the area in which we will live will increase as occupations are given in more buildings, but we can use this figure to understand the load on those common area for which we do not have plans for expansion like swimming pool, kids park, tennis court, basket ball court etc.

Phases of Constructions BlocksNo of Units Total % Cumulative Total Notional Density (Person/ 1000 sq mts)
Occupied B1 80 866 33 866 12
- B2,B3,B4 474
-B5 160
-C3 152
Under Construction B6,B8 300 676 26 1542 22
-B7 80
-C1,C2 296
To be Constructed B9 80 1078 41 2620 37
-B10 150
-D1,D2 640
-D3 64
-A1,A2,A3 144
When the L&T goes? ---- 2620 49

Assuming two persons per apartment and hundred percent occupancy, following chart shows notional density (person per thousand sq meter of land) will increase four folds.

5. What are the solutions which we have?

5.1 Financial Compensation

The easiest one is to get financial compensation, but the difficult part is to find how much compensation we can demand. The most logical thing which we find is get 25% refund of the cost which can be attributed towards the land.

But, how we will be calculating it? Instead of total cost of the flat, we must have to use the basic cost of the flat excluding the registration cost, and all other deposits. Again, out of the basic cost we need to find the ratio how much we can attribute to the land and how much to the actual flat. And, as we are using the price at the time of purchase rather than the current price, then there shall be interest also on this money. Calculating the compensation is going to be a big debatable issue, but let us try to find how much money is on the stake. I paid 18.5 L in 2002 for 2 bed room flat in B4. The basic cost of the flat was around 14 L. If I attribute 50% of the basic cost to the flat, then we can say 7L was for land. Now, I can claim 25% of this money, which will come around 1.75L and then with interest and all, I can expect up to 2 Lakh.

Compensation of 2 Lakh? Are we ready to accept this for loosing the park worth 45 Crore and all the areas which is gone to public and for living in a cramped place like we are going to have?

At least not myself.. it will be more like selling a part of my own home for peanuts and I am not for that.

5.2.Make them to Make up the Loss

You promised me 34 Acre, you give me 34 Acre. There is huge land in parallel to B1-B10 clusters just outside the boundary which l&T uses as dumping ground. How about asking to compensate us by getting land from that chunk and make it to 34 Acre. Not sure how practical it will be and how feasible it will be under BDA regulations.

5.3. Restore the Percentage Undivided Share

Most logical solution, at least restore the percentage undivided share. Per the sale deed, you had 34 Acre of land and you wanted to make the total built up area of 261912.30 sq meters. Now, we lost 25% of the 34 Acre to BDA, so let us bring down the built up area also by the same proportion, i.e 25%. This solution looks most logical and fair to all residents as well as the builder.

6. What next?

If we go for solution mentioned above to ask L&T to restore the percentage undivided share of land, then we need to sit together with L&T and rework the plan for further constructions.

See the calculations here:
Total saleable area of the project (as per the current plan) 261912.29 Sq Mts
Saleable area after 25% Reduction 196434.22 Sq Mts
Total Saleable Area of the project if we do not construct any more buildings like - A1,A2,A3,D1,D2,D3 176145.32 Sq Mts
Balance Area which can be Built after completing B and C series 20288.90 Sq Mts

This means we need to reduce the built up area from 261912.30 Sq Mts to 196434.22. Once we have all the B series and C series apartments ready, the built up area will reach to 176 145 Sq Mts. First we need to scrap the plan to make for A series and D series. Instead of that we can have only additional 20 thousand sq mts of build up area. This is some thing like a single building of size C3. So,to maintain the percentage A1,A2 and A3 must go and instead of the buildings D1,D2,D3 we can have only one building of built up area not more than 20300 Sq Mts. Effectively this reduces the number of buildings from 19 to 14.

And, then we need to extend the kids park area in the space marked for A series and then we need to make a park, I mean a park which belongs to us only. This can come out in the area which we saved in the space marked for D2 and D3.

So, let us unite and protect our interests.South City is our home !!!

Comments from South City Residents

Nice job in putting together this exclusive documents with Fact/Figures and Question/Answers. How do we plan to launch a protest? Any thoughts around legally making L&T stop what they are doing/about to do.
In this document I see that most of the fact/figures are based on word of mouth, which many or many not be reliable. So first I will suggest creating a petition and circulate it around for signatures.For people like me who are no in B'lore we can fax these signatures over.This petition will also help figure out who actually is interested in this protest.
I have a strong feeling that Legal way will be the only way around this, and will also be the strong way to get the message to L&T. - Bhagirath

Thanks for the document.. I have taken an apartment in B8...I agree with you, and if action need be taken it should be now, since L&T has already started the excavation for the D blocks.. I heard from some of the supervisors that L&T has not yet given the building go-ahead for D blocks. So we should be able to put pur points forth now
Since I am new to this group, Whats the next step? Has the association already taken up this issue? Whats the association's stand on this ? Or should the residents meet up to chart a course ? - Dilip

Absolutely fabulous work with your research !! Count me in for whatever action the group decides to take and let me know how I can help. - Santosh B2-302

Hats off to you Neel!! One good thing coming out of this group in recent times. Count me in for any help you need on this or any other issue. I hope people get united for this, though most of the resident seems indifferent to security concern which is effecting in big way curently. - Kumar x1030

Great work Neel. Just to put in perspective the magnitude of the problem, this is what it looks like,if we assume that L&T agrees not to build the A and D blocks and comes up with just 1 block of 20000+ sq m instead.
Total area to be given up by L&T 65478.07 sq m This will amount to 704544.03 sq ft at 10.76 sqft per sq m At a rate of Rs 2300/sq ft (taking the lower end of the quoted rates), this will come to a whopping Rs 162,04,51,276.36 approx Rs 162 crores. For tbis kind of money, L&T would rather die fighting than give into the demands of the residents. So we are looking at a very big battle in the days/months/years to come. - Deepak AG B4-506

No words to praise the kind of work you have done! Fabulous. Congrats – If you are contesting the election my vote is for you!! You are the kind of person who can demystify maintenance charges also…I mean how much is collected? How is it spent??? - Manish Thomare

It’s an eye opener, I am with you any help needed let me know. - Ashish Gupta

Excellent piece of work. We need to fight it out to protect our interests and also in the interests of OUR COMMUNITY. Pls. count me in for any voluntary work that may be required. - Natarajan.R PMP

Neel has done a commendable job. Please form an Action Group to move forward. - Padmanabhan

I think L&T has done a very clever business move. In case if they constructed LIG/MIG flats, they had to run 25% of colony cost to cost. However, they have given away the land and community area thus saving their profits (Thus instead of parting profits, they have given out land). Also, Ranka has purchased it back. Well I am not an owner, but I concur with most of the facts stated. I see the biggest challenge to be security and density in future. - Vivek

Thanks for the analysis. This was an eye opener. I purchased the flat 2 years ago, and paid premium on the existing rates for the open spaces and parks in South City where my kids could have played. I feel cheated today.
The time to bring this in public is NOW. L&T has a brand to protect and cannot get away easily. The only way L&T can get away is by creating division internally within the residents.
May I request our office bearers to call for a meeting, where ONLY this issue is discussed. I am sure with all the incriminating evidence, we have a case as a collective stakeholder in this project. - Balaji B4/1405

Great work Neel, I'm impressed! However, you may want to re-examine some of your assumptions. - kuruvilla abraham

Thank you very much for taking all this trouble for us. I will be more than willing to contribute, participate in any way I can. Please let me know if you need any more volunteers for this. - Rajesh Kalyanshetty

Interested to make your voice heard? We have an open poll at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lnt_SouthCity/surveys?id=1822431. You can login today and make your opinion count!

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